Weather Report - Heavy Weather (1977) [Original Recordings Group (ORG) 45rpm 2xLP-Set] 24-bit/96kHz & CD-format

Thanks! big weather report fan here.... although much prefer their earlier albums..

Thank you very much
This ORG vs Sony Legcy

foobar2000 1.1.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0 beta 6
log date: 2011-10-01 17:51:02

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Analyzed: Weather Report / Heavy Weather(Sony Legacy 180g; Mastered by Allan Tucker)
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
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DR12 -1.00 dB -17.37 dB 5:56 01-Birdland
DR12 -2.97 dB -18.97 dB 6:49 02-A Remark You Made
DR12 -1.41 dB -17.95 dB 2:51 03-Teen Town
DR13 -3.14 dB -21.57 dB 3:57 04-Harlequin
DR14 -0.50 dB -19.04 dB 2:11 05-Rumba Mama
DR11 -2.05 dB -16.57 dB 4:45 06-Palladium
DR13 -4.03 dB -21.89 dB 5:03 07-The Juggler
DR12 -2.53 dB -18.21 dB 5:55 08-Havona
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 2683 kbps
Codec: TAK
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.1.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0 beta 6
log date: 2011-10-01 17:58:55

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Analyzed: Weather Report / Heavy Weather(Original Recordings Group 45rpm 2xLP-Set; Mastered by Bernie Grundman)
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR13 -2.81 dB -20.47 dB 5:57 01-Birdland
DR12 -4.32 dB -20.72 dB 6:46 02-A Remark You Made
DR15 -3.35 dB -23.09 dB 2:51 03-Teen Town
DR13 -3.94 dB -22.81 dB 3:58 04-Harlequin
DR15 -2.26 dB -21.73 dB 2:10 05-Rumba Mama
DR12 -3.48 dB -19.20 dB 4:42 06-Palladium
DR12 -4.59 dB -22.38 dB 5:03 07-The Juggler
DR15 -0.17 dB -20.42 dB 5:59 08-Havona
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR13

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 2655 kbps
Codec: TAK
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.1.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0 beta 6
log date: 2011-10-01 11:42:49

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Analyzed: Weather Report / Heavy Weather SACD
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 0.00 dB -18.68 dB 5:57 01-Birdland
DR11 -3.62 dB -19.39 dB 6:51 02-A Remark You Made
DR14 -0.13 dB -19.28 dB 2:51 03-Teen Town
DR12 -3.37 dB -20.78 dB 3:59 04-Harlequin
DR14 -0.55 dB -20.44 dB 2:11 05-Rumba Mama
DR10 -2.87 dB -19.52 dB 4:46 06-Palladium
DR11 -1.38 dB -19.35 dB 5:03 07-The Juggler
DR12 0.00 dB -16.10 dB 6:01 08-Havona
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 2822400 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 5645 kbps
Codec: DSD64
==================================================

What a pleasure to be able to listen to my fav, A Remark You Made, in HiRez ( especially mastered by Bernie )!!!
Vielen Dank !

lol 2 comments with only posting DR analysis.
As this is one of my favourite album, I'll give it a try and see if it beats the orig. Us and give feedback! Thanks for the rip aksman!

@fredists
Now first,Let's think about the difference between your ripped by 24/192 and aksman's ripped.

It's not my rip, it's pbthal's

DR Analysis don't say nothing about the rest of the 'good sounding' thing, i mean: EQ, kind of compression, mix, NR, etc.

If you put an DR analysis, please add a comment about the other aspects of sound too. And, hey! Why you left out the DR analysis of the good gold CD?

Are just a few cases of remasters surpassing the awesome originals.

I'll test this rip.

I mean we must respect for all version as peace

.
AKSMAN has a different vinyl rip of this album here:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
___http://avaxhome.ws/music/jazz/weatherreport_heavyweather_180gvinyl.html
___Weather Report - Heavy Weather - 1977 | Posted by : aksman - 12 Nov 2009
___Vinyl Rip in 24-bit/96kHz & 16-bit/44.1kHz | FLAC | m3u, cue & Log | Artwork | 800/230 mb incl. recovery | RS&FF
___Vinyl, Sony Legacy 180g LP (88697351421), Mastered by Allan Tucker @ TuckerSound, New York

RCM Hannl 'limited' with "Rotating Brush"
Music Hall MMF 5.1 Turntable with Pro-Ject Speedbox
Goldring 1042GX reference Cartridge
Belari VP-129 Tube Phono PreAmp with Sylvania 12AX7WA
Tascam US-144 external USB 2.0 Audiointerface
Interconnections by "Goldkabel"
Wavelab 5 recording software
iZotope RX Advanced 1.21 for redbook convertion

Vacuum cleaning > TT > Belari > Laptop > Wavelab 5.01 (24/96) > manual click removal >
analyze (no clipping, no DC Bias offset) > split into individual Tracks > FLAC encoded (Vers. 1.21)

No silence been removed, please burn gapless to match original tracklayout.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAS ANYBODY HERE COMPARED THE TWO RIPS ?

Thanks for this one too aksman +++
.

@ derty2

Here is a comment from my facebook anouncement:

“

the sound is 100x better than the sony version. great soundstage and depth.

”

and a liitle bit later from the same user:

“

I ordered a copy of the vinyl...sounds too good :)

”

Would be great to get also your feedback!

Ok, i've tested all CDs, SACDs and vinyls: no one surpasses the original!!

I hope we can get this PBTHAL original in 24/96, not only 16/44.1. :D

This new release, despite it have very good DR, sounds Smiled Faced EQ'd, as we are used to with Mr. Bernie Grundman.

The original has ALL the music content inside, nothing more, nothing less. Including the Mid frequencies.

If something has to be remastered should be to give us MORE music content, not LESS music than the music that exist in the Master Tapes.

@ bertox

Strange, I get more air, soundstage and depht... Maybe my AD conversion isn't good enough to show all details.

Yes, it is very typical. :)

The 'Smiled Faced' type of EQ has the particularity to give the impression of an open sound and full of air. Kinda 3D sound.

But is just and apparent impression.

The 'presence' frequencies (~ 12KHz) give to the human ear this 'exciting' and airy kind of feeling. A lot more if the mids are inversely proportional decreased..

The mids are a kind of very intrusive, the human ear are too sensitive to the mids than any other frequencies. For that, if you cut the mids you feel like relaxed, kinda 'floating'.

BUT real life music HAVE MIDS that you can't cut nor by EQ'ing nor nothing.

The thing is that the 'soundstage' or the 'air' or 'depth' are different things too.

The term 'air' is used when you can hear the different dynamic natural levels of sounds and transients: less compression = more air. 'The air between the notes of the instruments and between the instruments'. Can you ever listen music with 0 (zero) compression? Well, this is 'air'.

The 'depth' is correlated to the same thing, but in a more general view.

'Soundstage' is a mix of views, and more kinda correlated to the stereo wide feeling summed with the terms above explained as a mix. For that, a MONO recording CAN have 'Soundstage' too, depends on what you are trying to say.


Your A/D are perfect aksman. You can note this ripping with a cheap soundcard or even listening an MP3.

It's all in the mastering. ;)

@bertox

What a crapola !!! > "sounds Smiled Faced EQ'd, as we are used to with Mr. Bernie Grundman."
We WHO? You infant and your father-out.of.law/voodoo-shaman Stan Ricker ?

Where did you paste and copy all the above terms from, gal ?

And this > "The original has ALL the music content inside" < Why don't you post it here, if you know how, beauty ?

Oh, honey, BTW, WE too KISS your lips...
... so far ;)
them so far, i.e.

Uh?





-Text is too short (minimum is 10 characters)-

Thanks again aksman.

I can see what ~bertox is saying.
I just did a comparison listen of this release and the Sony, I played them quite a number of times,
I put myself into a loose relaxed state and let the music flow like a rollicking analog sine wave, as one would expect from this genre of music.
To me, it's all about an enjoyable music experience,I don't really care about audio engineering statistics;
This ORG release eventually tired my ears, the profusion of shrill and sharp notes eventually overloaded my senses.
The Sony release, to me, had a warmer rounded punchier feel, and I could easily sit back and listen to the whole album.

I don't know enough about the audio engineering world to pass judgement on the reason why Berrnie Grundman has chosen to master it like this.
Perhaps the majority of today's audiophiles have become the musical equivalent of saturated high contrast equalization effects we see in the world of Digital Photography.
Therefore Bernie at al are producing sounds to suit this new type of listener.
Perhaps another reason may be the fact that valves/vaccuum tubes now only exist in high end audio equipment; the average person just does not get exposed enough to musical warmth anymore.
Perhaps another reason is that analog studio mixing desks are fading into obscurity, and the new breed of engineers are losing the ability to 'understand' the past.

My listening setup:
- 2x Fostex SM6600 rear studio monitors (Made in Japan) with dedicated Technics integrated amplifier
- 2x ATC SCM19 nearfield speakers (Made in England) with dedicated Technics integrated amplifier
- Adjust the volumes of each amp to get an enhanced stereo sound stage with the main sound coming from the rearfield speakers; nearfield is used as an enhancer
- Windows XP SP3 - foobar2000 music player - Realtek HD Audio Driver - Direct Sound: Kernel Streaming output using "foo_out_ks" plugin for foobar2000

“

Perhaps the majority of today's audiophiles have become the musical equivalent of saturated high contrast equalization effects we see in the world of Digital Photography.

”

Good analogy! :)

About the Sony release, yes, you are right, i've put the SACD right behind the original. ;)
It have a very good dynamic range and an competent EQ. Not a flat EQ like in the original, but not even as bad as in the Grundman ORG.

And that what you are referring, that ears tiring, we in the forums calls it: 'Ear Bleeding' Mastering.

It's a mixture of lots of compression that don't let your ears to 'breath' and a typical Smiled Faced EQ.

The ORG aren't compressed really, but their EQ are really hurtful.

Maybe the people that listen to this kind of mastering use very low levels of volume, for that, this kind of smiled faces EQ works 'perfect' like a Loudness Compensation effect for the 'A weighted' human condition of hearing.

Well.., not for nothing it's called the LOUDNESS WAR!!

But music IS to be listened high and loud, full of air and details! You cannot hear loud and clear an Loudness War compliance recording without your ears start to BLEED!

The Smiled Faced EQ tends to seduce you at first place, by this relative passivity, but it turns to a knife when the minutes pass by.

Finally, this kind of EQ is what gets the money bills today, don't?
If they can't sell to you the music, cause the arts and culture nowadays are totally decadent (and so the listeners), well, they will attempt to seduce you just with sound mastering tricks. The industry needs to keep rolling. ;)

It's a common task to me, that when i'm about to listen a modern recording or a bad remastering, i have to put down the highs ~5db to be capable of a listening joy without much suffering.


p.s: my friend, you should try to get a better soundcard than this crappy on-board Realtek using the awful Windows Kmixer instead of ASIO drivers. You will enjoy your good music a lot more, trust me! :D

~bertox, I'll look into the soundcard upgrade, thanks for the tip.
Is it possible for you to share some links to the "original pressing vinyl rip" ?
If you don't want to share in public, then send me a PM, thanks.

- EDIT -
Okay I found the "original US 1st pressing vinyl rip" by PBTHAL from 2009 (CBS/Columbia #PC 34418); and so I did a 3-way comparison listen...
the PBTHAL/original rip has got superb range; the trebles, mids, and bass are all fully defined ...it's very nice.

However, as I stated before, enjoying musical sounds is a very personal activity, and sound engineering statistics don't mean very much to me,
therefore if I was to choose only 1 of these 3 rips and had to delete the other 2 from my computer...
~aksman's SONY rip from 2009 is my favourite listen; it has just the right balance of clarity, punch, and sweet warm tone; the EQ curve sympathizes with a late-1970's Jazz-Rock sound,
the audio is less defined than ~pbthal's rip, but it's definitely not muddy.

Thanks for another great upload Aksman.